In this first episode of Stack Chats, a new video series from Notabene, Pelle sits down with Clarisse Hagége, CEO & Co-Founder of Dfns, to talk about stablecoin payments infrastructure and unique institutional needs. Clarisse shares her perspective on why custody, payments, and security must evolve together, and why blockchain adoption depends on translating innovation into workflows financial institutions already understand. Watch the full episode below:

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From early experiments in remittances to today’s institutional payment and custody use cases, this conversation dives deep into how Dfns approaches security, privacy, and interoperability as foundational requirements, not optional features.

📌 Topics include:

• Why blockchain adoption starts with backend infrastructure
• Bridging crypto-native and traditional finance workflows
• Payments beyond settlement: messaging, metadata, and compliance
• Privacy and security as prerequisites for institutional scale
• Incremental change versus full-stack reinvention

Pelle and Clarisse begin by grounding the discussion in their shared experience working at the intersection of traditional finance and blockchain. From there, the conversation moves through the practical challenges institutions face today and the architectural decisions required to make digital assets usable in real-world financial operations. What follows is a breakdown of the key themes they explored and why they matter for anyone building or operating institutional-grade digital asset systems. Read on for a breakdown of the rest of the discussion points:

Why blockchain is a backend revolution, not a front-end one

Early in the conversation, Clarisse explains that Dfnsd was not built to serve only the most mature crypto use case at the time, trading. Instead, the company was designed to help any organization leverage blockchain without rebuilding the same sensitive infrastructure from scratch.

From key management to wallet architecture and chain connectivity, these foundational components are both time-consuming and high risk. Dfns approached the problem by building an API-first platform designed to slot into existing institutional systems, allowing banks, fintechs, and newer exchanges to adopt blockchain capabilities without abandoning established operational controls.

Clarisse emphasizes that blockchain’s real impact is not cosmetic. Its value lies in improving how financial systems operate behind the scenes.

From banking to blockchain: an institutional lens

Clarisse traces her interest in blockchain back to her time in traditional banking, where she first explored how distributed ledgers could improve trade finance and cross-border value transfer. Long before smart contracts and modern stablecoins matured, she saw blockchain as a way to reduce manual processes, speed up settlement, and lower operational friction.

That experience shaped Dfns long-term strategy. Rather than chasing short-term crypto cycles, the company focused on building infrastructure that aligns with how institutions already manage risk, compliance, and security.

This institutional lens remains central to how Dfns prioritizes product decisions today.

Why crypto and traditional finance keep talking past each other

As the discussion turns to adoption, Pelle and Clarisse examine a recurring challenge: crypto-native teams and traditional finance teams often use the same words to mean very different things.

A “wallet,” for example, can mean an Apple Pay interface to a payments team and a blockchain account to an engineer. These mismatches create friction, slow down projects, and increase operational risk.

Dfns spends significant effort translating concepts, workflows, and risks into language institutions already understand, while also preparing for a future where these definitions converge instead of remaining siloed.

Payments are more than just settlement

One of the core themes of the episode is the difference between settlement and payments.

Clarisse explains that traditional payment systems rely heavily on messaging layers like Swift, Visa, and Mastercard. These layers carry metadata, compliance information, and authorization logic long before funds settle. Blockchain enables near-instant settlement, but without messaging, critical information is often exchanged off-chain.

This gap limits how far stablecoin-based payments can scale. For institutional use cases, settlement without structured messaging is not enough.

Institutional demand and the role of messaging

Retail crypto use cases can often operate with simple push transfers between wallets. Institutional workflows cannot.

Pelle and Clarisse discuss how institutional trading, treasury, and payments involve multiple custodians, counterparties, and venues. Coordinating these actors requires structured communication to manage counterparty risk and ensure synchronized settlement.

As institutions move deeper into digital assets, demand for embedded messaging and coordination layers continues to grow.

Privacy as a requirement for real-world payments

Privacy emerges as a central theme as the conversation deepens.

Clarisse explains that large-scale payment and wholesale use cases cannot operate on fully transparent public ledgers. Businesses do not want competitors, suppliers, or counterparties seeing payment terms or transaction flows.

She discusses how privacy-preserving architectures can coexist with regulatory oversight, noting that regulators and law enforcement are often more pragmatic about privacy than crypto narratives suggest. The goal is not secrecy, but controlled visibility.

Incremental change beats full reinvention

As institutions enter the space, Clarisse observes a consistent message: do not change everything at once.

Banks and payment providers want improvements that integrate with existing processes. Radical operational shifts slow adoption and increase risk. Dfns designs its platform to be modular, allowing institutions to adopt blockchain capabilities step by step while preserving familiar workflows.

This incremental approach, Clarisse argues, is essential for long-term adoption.

Security starts with fundamentals

Security is a recurring thread throughout the episode.

Clarisse emphasizes that many of the most damaging failures in crypto were not caused by novel blockchain threats, but by weak corporate security practices. Dfns started by applying well-established financial industry controls: audits, certifications, internal controls, and disciplined operations.

Advanced cryptography like MPC builds on these foundations. It does not replace them.

Reducing human error, improving usability, and aligning security with institutional behavior are key to making digital assets safe at scale.

Why Dfns partnered with Notabene

Toward the end of the conversation, Clarisse explains why Dfns chose to integrate with Notabene.

Payments and custody are core priorities for Dfns, particularly for cross-border, payroll, and PSP use cases. As these flows scale, structured messaging, compliance data, and secure settlement become essential.

Notabene’s messaging layer fits directly into this vision, helping institutions move beyond simple transfers and toward full payment workflows on-chain.

Episode breakdown

Here is a quick minute-by-minute guide to the conversation:

00:00 – 03:00
Introductions. Pelle and Clarisse discuss their backgrounds and early experiences with blockchain, banking, and remittances.

03:00 – 07:30
Why Dfns was built for institutions. API-first design, custody foundations, and avoiding repeated infrastructure rebuilds.

07:30 – 11:55
Crypto versus traditional finance language gaps. Why translation is critical for adoption.

11:55 – 15:10
Payments versus settlement. Messaging layers, metadata, and why settlement alone is not enough.

15:10 – 18:30
Institutional workflows and counterparty risk. Why messaging becomes essential at scale.

18:30 – 26:00
Privacy and confidentiality. Public chains, institutional requirements, and regulatory realities.

26:00 – 29:30
Incremental adoption. Why institutions want improvement without operational shock.

29:30 – 35:55
Security fundamentals. Audits, MPC, usability, and reducing human error.

35:55 – end
Dfns and Notabene. Payments, messaging, and building infrastructure that supports real-world workflows.

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🎙️ Stack Chats is Notabene’s video series for product leaders, fintech builders, and infrastructure innovators shaping the next generation of blockchain-based financial systems.

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